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	<title>Comments on: apple’s hater fans</title>
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		<title>By: Tom Hostler</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hostler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-64</guid>
		<description>How about hatevocates to juxtapose against advocates for your catchy little name? Do I get a biscuit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about hatevocates to juxtapose against advocates for your catchy little name? Do I get a biscuit?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Pearson</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Bit late to this post Andy, but there is one brand that I can think of that&#039;s similar, at least to some degree. And that&#039;s Alfa-Romeo.

Lots of motoring enthusiasts really rate them as driver&#039;s cars, for the feel , the looks and the sound, to the point where some say you can&#039;t be a real &quot;petrol-head&quot; until you&#039;ve owned one.



However, they have a history of unreliability, poor build quality and after-sales support that even people who work for them say is woeful.

But people still buy them. There&#039;s just something about them as a product that keeps people hoping above expectation that the overall experience will be good, rather than an exercise in masochism.

What I don&#039;t know is if people buy more than one, and that&#039;s certainly something Apple appear to have no problems with.

I suspect that the love/hate response to Apple is complex and mutli-faceted. Some won&#039;t like them because in some markets they&#039;ve shifted from plucky underdog to major player, some other people might have a &quot;I liked them before they were famous,&quot; thing going on, others just might set the hype bar so high they can&#039;t fail to be disappointed by a firm that ultimately exists to make money for its shareholders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bit late to this post Andy, but there is one brand that I can think of that&#8217;s similar, at least to some degree. And that&#8217;s Alfa-Romeo.</p>
<p>Lots of motoring enthusiasts really rate them as driver&#8217;s cars, for the feel , the looks and the sound, to the point where some say you can&#8217;t be a real &#8220;petrol-head&#8221; until you&#8217;ve owned one.</p>
<p>However, they have a history of unreliability, poor build quality and after-sales support that even people who work for them say is woeful.</p>
<p>But people still buy them. There&#8217;s just something about them as a product that keeps people hoping above expectation that the overall experience will be good, rather than an exercise in masochism.</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t know is if people buy more than one, and that&#8217;s certainly something Apple appear to have no problems with.</p>
<p>I suspect that the love/hate response to Apple is complex and mutli-faceted. Some won&#8217;t like them because in some markets they&#8217;ve shifted from plucky underdog to major player, some other people might have a &#8220;I liked them before they were famous,&#8221; thing going on, others just might set the hype bar so high they can&#8217;t fail to be disappointed by a firm that ultimately exists to make money for its shareholders.</p>
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		<title>By: Igor Clark</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Igor Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-28</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been saying for years (and that means a lot longer than e.g. http://theocacao.com/document.page/236) that Apple are a fairly evil company who just happen to make better products, and whose actions are often at least as monopolistic and murky as (e.g.) Microsoft&#039;s, but they don&#039;t get the same levels of shit, firstly because of the army of fanboys, and secondly because of their considerably smaller market share.

I don&#039;t think that the situation, or the army of fanboys, has changed much; what has changed is the market share and the diversification into different markets, hence the wider exposure of their practices, and the responses to those practices by a greater number of thinking consumers. The problem is, they still make better products. They just do. By which I mean more polished, more integrated, better designed, yadda yadda, and sure, more expensive, but for the market, it&#039;s just better. Consumers, creative pros, etc, and they manage to keep the developers on side with the space-age APIs, toolkits, 64-bit, UNIX, blah, blah blah. How many other companies do that? The strapline should be something like &quot;Apple: we&#039;re evil, but we&#039;re goood&quot;. (I should be in marketing. Gor&#039;s Truth Marketing Agency.)

Also, this freedom and openness business is really a lot more about developers and hippies. Not only do developers come back in their droves even if they do get pissed off about NDAs and so on, because ultimately they know it&#039;s a good platform with good tools, good support and good infrastructure - and the channel to market for their product is astounding - but frankly, most consumer users couldn&#039;t give a shit. They just want it smooth, integrated, working out of the box, looking nice. Why pander to a minority if your bottom line&#039;s the issue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been saying for years (and that means a lot longer than e.g. <a href="http://theocacao.com/document.page/236)" rel="nofollow">http://theocacao.com/document.page/236)</a> that Apple are a fairly evil company who just happen to make better products, and whose actions are often at least as monopolistic and murky as (e.g.) Microsoft&#8217;s, but they don&#8217;t get the same levels of shit, firstly because of the army of fanboys, and secondly because of their considerably smaller market share.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that the situation, or the army of fanboys, has changed much; what has changed is the market share and the diversification into different markets, hence the wider exposure of their practices, and the responses to those practices by a greater number of thinking consumers. The problem is, they still make better products. They just do. By which I mean more polished, more integrated, better designed, yadda yadda, and sure, more expensive, but for the market, it&#8217;s just better. Consumers, creative pros, etc, and they manage to keep the developers on side with the space-age APIs, toolkits, 64-bit, UNIX, blah, blah blah. How many other companies do that? The strapline should be something like &#8220;Apple: we&#8217;re evil, but we&#8217;re goood&#8221;. (I should be in marketing. Gor&#8217;s Truth Marketing Agency.)</p>
<p>Also, this freedom and openness business is really a lot more about developers and hippies. Not only do developers come back in their droves even if they do get pissed off about NDAs and so on, because ultimately they know it&#8217;s a good platform with good tools, good support and good infrastructure &#8211; and the channel to market for their product is astounding &#8211; but frankly, most consumer users couldn&#8217;t give a shit. They just want it smooth, integrated, working out of the box, looking nice. Why pander to a minority if your bottom line&#8217;s the issue?</p>
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		<title>By: andy</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-27</guid>
		<description>@flipper01: I think we have crossed wires. No one *has* to do anything. I&#039;m simply observing a dynamic that I find interesting. Am I a member of this group? Kind of. Although I lack the passion to either love or hate Apple. I don&#039;t consider myself a &#039;fan&#039; of anything. Except Pixar ;)

@flipper02: It&#039;s not about hating something you thought you&#039;d love. I&#039;m arguing that the love is there for the product, but the hate is for the brand. The torment would not be there if it was simply a mistake purchase. The torment exists because pleasure is still gained but with a constant discomfort with all that comes with it. A bit like a drug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@flipper01: I think we have crossed wires. No one *has* to do anything. I&#8217;m simply observing a dynamic that I find interesting. Am I a member of this group? Kind of. Although I lack the passion to either love or hate Apple. I don&#8217;t consider myself a &#8216;fan&#8217; of anything. Except Pixar ;)</p>
<p>@flipper02: It&#8217;s not about hating something you thought you&#8217;d love. I&#8217;m arguing that the love is there for the product, but the hate is for the brand. The torment would not be there if it was simply a mistake purchase. The torment exists because pleasure is still gained but with a constant discomfort with all that comes with it. A bit like a drug.</p>
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		<title>By: flipper02</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>flipper02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Yes Andy, sorry if I was getting off topic there. I&#039;d say that type of hater/fan is there, but it&#039;s a very small niche. Surely a hater/fan is just somebody that&#039;s made a mistake? Why would you buy something if you knew you were going to hate it? It&#039;s like a vegetarian ordering a roast chicken meal because he like the vegetables it comes with. Historically, the hater/fans had little choice when it comes to mp3 players and smart phones. But there&#039;s options now. Be interesting to see what happens during the year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Andy, sorry if I was getting off topic there. I&#8217;d say that type of hater/fan is there, but it&#8217;s a very small niche. Surely a hater/fan is just somebody that&#8217;s made a mistake? Why would you buy something if you knew you were going to hate it? It&#8217;s like a vegetarian ordering a roast chicken meal because he like the vegetables it comes with. Historically, the hater/fans had little choice when it comes to mp3 players and smart phones. But there&#8217;s options now. Be interesting to see what happens during the year.</p>
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		<title>By: flipper01</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>flipper01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Should Nilesh have to &quot;admit he&#039;s one of them&quot;? Whats wrong being a consumer who can still see the flaws in some of the products they buy? Are you not &quot;one of them&quot; Andy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should Nilesh have to &#8220;admit he&#8217;s one of them&#8221;? Whats wrong being a consumer who can still see the flaws in some of the products they buy? Are you not &#8220;one of them&#8221; Andy?</p>
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		<title>By: andy</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-24</guid>
		<description>My argument though Jason, is that there&#039;s a new breed of Apple consumer that you can argue this stuff with. Nilesh admits he&#039;s one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My argument though Jason, is that there&#8217;s a new breed of Apple consumer that you can argue this stuff with. Nilesh admits he&#8217;s one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: flipper02</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>flipper02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-23</guid>
		<description>excellent comments Nilesh. I agree completely with your views and observations. What annoys me is you simply can not debate these views amongst the Apple community. You&#039;re instantly shouted down as some kind of hater. It&#039;s akin to walking into St Paul&#039;s and saying &quot;I think God is a superstition, what do you think?&quot;. I&#039;ve given up trying. I can&#039;t handle the bullying. http://www.macheadsthemovie.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent comments Nilesh. I agree completely with your views and observations. What annoys me is you simply can not debate these views amongst the Apple community. You&#8217;re instantly shouted down as some kind of hater. It&#8217;s akin to walking into St Paul&#8217;s and saying &#8220;I think God is a superstition, what do you think?&#8221;. I&#8217;ve given up trying. I can&#8217;t handle the bullying. <a href="http://www.macheadsthemovie.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.macheadsthemovie.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nilesh Ashra</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Nilesh Ashra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Yeah, what&#039;s been going on with Apple since the iPhone is fascinating.

I&#039;m a hater fan too.

One of the things I hate about Apple is the walled-garden they create around their products and services. Everything is billed as some shiney &#039;premium&#039; service that you should apparently be happy to pay for, at the expense of your wallet and freedom. Apple are becoming notorious for trying pen users and developers into their way of doing things - and extremely arrogant and dangerous tactic.

The fiasco over the iPhone NDA, and App Store is a good example of this actually - they&#039;re seriously pissing off the very developers they rely on to make these Apps. Those very developers have taken the (imho) big risk in learning and targeting a closed-source, non-free licensed platform, only for Apple to treat them like shit in a lot of cases.

These days, being open is favoured by users and developers alike. The freedom to take what&#039;s rightfully yours (be it data or services) and move it where you want. Android, HTML5, OpenID, OpenSocial and the like are all efforts to standardise the core bits of important technology so that the user doesn&#039;t end up being locked into one platform or company.

Another thing I&#039;ve noticed is that Apple don&#039;t care what kind of experiences you want to have with their products. They&#039;re more interested in the experience that THEY want you to have - pushing their lifestyle/ethos upon users, instead of listening to what they want. It&#039;s a subtle distinction, but it&#039;s something that is unique to Apple. Within weeks of the iPhone launch and since there have been websites where people have petitioned in their thousands for Apple to add features like MMS, Copy/Paste, modem tethering, etc to the iPhone. Why?! It&#039;s fascinating that those people don&#039;t ridicule Apple for not putting in those features in the first place (like they would if it was Nokia, Motorola, etc would released a mobile with a host of missing features), wash their hands of Apple, walk away, and buy another phone.

Many Apple consumers don&#039;t seem to be willing to give up the sexy products in light of missing features of obvious problems. Instead, they plead with them to fix them, wait on tenterhooks for 18 months for the new product, wait in line for 12 hours to get it on launch day and then announce that Apple are the best technology company in the world and &quot;OMG AWESOME MY PHONE CAN COPY AND PASTE NOW TAKE THAT MICRO$OFT!1&quot;

Weird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, what&#8217;s been going on with Apple since the iPhone is fascinating.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a hater fan too.</p>
<p>One of the things I hate about Apple is the walled-garden they create around their products and services. Everything is billed as some shiney &#8216;premium&#8217; service that you should apparently be happy to pay for, at the expense of your wallet and freedom. Apple are becoming notorious for trying pen users and developers into their way of doing things &#8211; and extremely arrogant and dangerous tactic.</p>
<p>The fiasco over the iPhone NDA, and App Store is a good example of this actually &#8211; they&#8217;re seriously pissing off the very developers they rely on to make these Apps. Those very developers have taken the (imho) big risk in learning and targeting a closed-source, non-free licensed platform, only for Apple to treat them like shit in a lot of cases.</p>
<p>These days, being open is favoured by users and developers alike. The freedom to take what&#8217;s rightfully yours (be it data or services) and move it where you want. Android, HTML5, OpenID, OpenSocial and the like are all efforts to standardise the core bits of important technology so that the user doesn&#8217;t end up being locked into one platform or company.</p>
<p>Another thing I&#8217;ve noticed is that Apple don&#8217;t care what kind of experiences you want to have with their products. They&#8217;re more interested in the experience that THEY want you to have &#8211; pushing their lifestyle/ethos upon users, instead of listening to what they want. It&#8217;s a subtle distinction, but it&#8217;s something that is unique to Apple. Within weeks of the iPhone launch and since there have been websites where people have petitioned in their thousands for Apple to add features like MMS, Copy/Paste, modem tethering, etc to the iPhone. Why?! It&#8217;s fascinating that those people don&#8217;t ridicule Apple for not putting in those features in the first place (like they would if it was Nokia, Motorola, etc would released a mobile with a host of missing features), wash their hands of Apple, walk away, and buy another phone.</p>
<p>Many Apple consumers don&#8217;t seem to be willing to give up the sexy products in light of missing features of obvious problems. Instead, they plead with them to fix them, wait on tenterhooks for 18 months for the new product, wait in line for 12 hours to get it on launch day and then announce that Apple are the best technology company in the world and &#8220;OMG AWESOME MY PHONE CAN COPY AND PASTE NOW TAKE THAT MICRO$OFT!1&#8243;</p>
<p>Weird.</p>
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		<title>By: flipper02</title>
		<link>http://nowincolour.com/2009/07/apples-hater-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>flipper02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nowincolour.com/?p=335#comment-21</guid>
		<description>I just bought some Raybans. I hate Raybans. But I just bought some Raybans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just bought some Raybans. I hate Raybans. But I just bought some Raybans.</p>
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